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In any case, you've got my upvote, because in the very least you'll be providing a fun discussion. 02/28/2012 06:03 pm ET Updated Apr 29, 2012 There are so many perspectives on the Obama/Catholic Church contraception debate that it is hard to keep track. Birth control is an affirmation of individual freedom and a rejection of the idea that the female should be reduced to the role of procreation. The Pope is devoid of fun . Yet none of these attributes were retained as relevant to designate the category of humans from which cahotlic priests should be selected. Poor wording on my part. But the Evangelists do mention the women who were the disciples of Jesus. Today, the cards for ending poverty once and for all are in our hands. This is an excellent explanation. 02/28/2012 06:03 pm ET Updated Apr 29, 2012 There are so many perspectives on the Obama/Catholic Church contraception debate that it is hard to keep track. Warning: This story includes accounts of reported child sex abuse. Why Are You? They may have undergone a formal process to join another church or faith though. Morality without God can only ever exist in the form of moral (or rather, ethical) decision-making. Also, contrary to your claim, the idea of the Virgin Birth is not based on a translation error. There are photos of me playing dress-up, I had converted my desk into an altar, placed a bible and a huge candle on either side of it, I was wearing a scarf as a stola around my neck and shoulders and trying to look very ceremonial and serious on the photos. Divorcing was the best decision of my life. 4. > **Note: This subreddit is a support forum and not a … The longer Latin Mass involved elaborate choreography, and the priest's back was toward the pews. Catholicity (from Ancient Greek: καθολικός, romanized: katholikós, lit. Saying that poverty has always existed and will therefore always exist is a logical fallacy and it puts many people at risk. Then they abruptly or gradually became men and women of heroic virtue. Wow, that’s very true. The host of "The Sean Hannity Show" revealed in a clip shared with The Christian Post that despite attending Catholic school for 12 years, he is no longer affiliated with the Catholic Church due to “too much institutionalized corruption” that has not been “rectified.” /r/Catholic is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. Clearly, I seemed to have another standard against which I was judging these things. The problem is that an "individual-freedom based approach to life" is not Catholic. I agree with that last part a lot. We know more today than we did at any other point in history and we simply cannot accept that poverty continues to befall billions of people. I have to add that I have never had a literal reading of the bible and always thought of it as more of a metaphor and a guidance than a historic account of real events. What twisted logic is this? The churches position flows from other points - so what? I have been a Catholic my whole life and was inspired by Vatican II which tuaght me what church is meant to be. Literally nobody famous is Catholic . It would be insane for 12 middle class guys to give up EVERYTHING including their lives for a lie that brought them no worldly comforts. Well, I know Jesus Christ rose from the dead. They were regular folks (St. Ignatius of Loyola is a good example, pre-cannonball). Warning: This story includes accounts of reported child sex abuse. Interpretations. The fact that this horribly, scandal ridden, corrupt organization of incompetent old farts survived 2 weeks after the ascension is proof God is behind the church. Nazareth College and Saint John Fisher College, both in Rochester, New York, were declared no longer Catholic by Bishop Matthew Clark. Shouldn't there be just as many atheists suddenly becoming basically St. Francis (except without a belief in any God), if this is natural in humans? He would no longer engage in ministry within his diocese or religious institute; no longer celebrate Mass or confer the sacraments; no longer be called “Father” or wear clerical clothing; and no longer be supported financially by the Church. Shows total ignorance of the fundamental difference between then and now as far as the progress in medicine, agriculture, technology and many other fields is concerned. Digg. Sadly, in past 20 years or so, the Catholic Church has moved so far from Vatican II that I can no longer feel a part of it. Yet...they did. What makes this religion the correct religion? 1. There’s definitely not a record of popes going back 2000 years. Find more subreddits like r/Catholicism -- /r/Catholicism is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. It is as if I have been abandoned by the Church I knew and love. Of all Christianity...Catholicism seems the most genuine. Thirdly, Mary had to have been a virgin or else God did not really become man in the Incarnation (Jn 1.14), nor did God give us His own Son, but someone else's. This does not mean that this morality is arbitrary, it is all but. Interpretations. In 2018-19, 47% of Latinos identified as Catholic. I can take an absolutist stance and say that everyone should aim for abstinence and whoever cannot reach that ideal can just have HIV, or I can take a pragmatist stance and promote the method with the lowest barrier of entry so that as many people as possible can benefit from not getting HIV. Observe the real world. One year later, I divorced a man who was narcissistic, dominant, dishonest but also deeply catholic. The first group apparently had no trouble find romance, and with there being so many in the second group, it leads … Everything Wrong with the Catholic Dating Scene Read More » LinkedIn. The level of sophistication required to pull off this kind of thing is WAY beyond what an Iron Age people could have pulled off. This subreddit is for any and all ex-Catholics to talk, educate, discuss and maybe even bitch about their experiences within the Catholic Church. Vyckie Garrison started No Longer Quivering to tell the story of her “escape” from the Quiverfull movement. The U.S. Navy reversed a controversial cost-cutting decision to suspend most contracts for Catholic priests, a move that would have canceled Catholic Masses at Naval bases in Southern California. You may put forth the argument: some moral stances the catholic church is defending are bad for human beings. I always struggle with this argument in favor of the Resurrection. I am not bitter at all. But it seems like you've not given much voice to the great theologians of our Faith. Sure, the existence of persons is a necessary condition of the possibility of social ills, but acting as though abortion and condoms would solve that is like saying that we ought to just shoot all elephants to stop elephant poaching. I have not carried out a large-scale, double-blind study on whether Catholics (or even religious people in general) are more moral than atheists. Over the last few years, it's become increasingly clear that there's no longer any place in Roman Catholicism for any but the most conservative and doctrinaire members. Rosary (Pixabay/Myriams-Fotos) Five hundred years ago, on Oct. 31, 1517, a massive, spiritual, paradigm shift took place. That’s why I’m Catholic: because I believe Catholicism is true. Citizens of Jerusalem would have definitely seen the Crucifixion happen (the Romans made it public on purpose), and I don't think they would have just bought the story of a few outcast Jewish men that "this man was handed over to you by God’s deliberate plan and foreknowledge; and you, with the help of wicked men, put him to death by nailing him to the cross. Leaving is painful. Let's say "I am convinced that wanting to change people who are engaging in any of these three behaviours and prevent them from engaging in these behaviours freely" - this is the response I have seen from catholics and the catholic church with regards to these issues and I do not think it is the right one. In fact, they are very good for me, and you have no right to judge, because we are all responsible for developing our own moral standards. told me Jesus never existed because there isn't a body. Practically speaking, this would mean that a priest no longer functioned outwardly as a priest. Literally nobody famous is Catholic . Most fathers I know are in awe of the whole thing, I certainly am. I notice also that you don't provide any actual arguments for why these three acts are acceptable, merely that your "individual-freedom based approach to life" clashes with them. Because they were the ones who originally translated Isaiah into Greek. 2. If a family has as many children as they can afford, then the quality of life of all these children as well as their parents will be increased or preserved by not having additional children. Take Scott Hahn for example. Had He wanted to do so with respect to female priestesses, He could have done so and would have had precedent in His own actions (breaking with customs) and in the cults of the Greco-Roman world, which had separate cults for women over which presided women. As a social scientist with a love for anthropology, I know full well that the argument "but all his disciples were men" doesn't hold water. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of the Christian Faith. Beyond that conspiracies tend to be...leaky. Your argument is like saying that we should just kill abandoned children in order to solve the problem of abandoned children. My only hole I can think to poke in this is that the documentation could’ve been hyperbolic. ... As a follower of Jesus, I can no longer endorse what the Scripture does not uphold. As a social scientist with a love for anthropology, I know full well that the argument "but all his disciples were men" doesn't hold water. Male authorship, rather. So I can only assume that it must have broken his heart when he sat me down for a talk that day. What about them was heroic virtue ? My 15 y.o. This admits many serious implications, primarily that Jesus was secretly a chauvinist at heart and bound by the laws of society. Over time, NLQ has developed into a … This has blown out of proportion a bit, I was not expecting that many comments and have trouble keeping up, especially with longer contributions, as I was typing mostly from my phone. These men were telling a story and preaching a message, and people--even those who you wouldn't expect--were listening for a reason. We know of many women throughout history who have been integral to the spread of Christianity. The wonder of procreation, the life-giving power of the female, so scary to men that they had to feign procreation without intercourse, motherhood without loss of virginity? From the Catechism of the Catholic Church: Offenses against chastity. I'd respond to these, but think it futile because of what I mentioned above. My own relationship was also in crisis. News; Local News; Laptops for all means school closures will no longer interrupt learning across Catholic school board. By January. Poverty has existed throughout history. It’s a truth claim. He had no sons. I have since found out that the Catholics have a different bible! Given that I have a problem with that situation, I am not likely to accept the justifications for it. Rosary (Pixabay/Myriams-Fotos) Five hundred years ago, on Oct. 31, 1517, a massive, spiritual, paradigm shift took place. Since you deny the divinity of Jesus Christ, its consequences will follow, the virginal birth being one of them. Men. Today I am in a healthy, well-balanced relationship. No one makes the argument that all of Jesus's disciples were men for the simple reason that there were many women who were very prominent among Jesus's disciples. When I was about 8 years old, I wanted to become a priest. It certainly is appealing but groups of people can make big sacrifices because they have been deluded or conned. I am Catholic because I am convinced the Church is the only place I will find the fullness of truth and joy. They did not use the generic Greek term for 'woman' (γυνή), but the word which specifically means 'virgin' (παρθένος). How do you explain it? It just didn't make sense. Yet I cannot deny the simple fact that family planning would go a long way towards solving all of these issues: poverty, illness and unwanted pregnancies. 2. Leaving is painful. 5. I know this because 12 men went to their deaths, pretty awful deaths without any sort of riches or hedonism to make their lives better, simply because they refused to deny that they had witnessed Christ be executed and then resurrected. Ireland is different from the Anglosphere because its pretty debatable whether we’re actually a part of it at all. Sadly, in past 20 years or so, the Catholic Church has moved so far from Vatican II that I can no longer feel a part of it. Breadcrumb Trail Links. Like with any other issue in this world, the question "Cui bono?" If we are free to develop our own standards of morality, then by what standard can you look at the Church and say, "Those standards are wrong"? Yet I cannot deny the simple fact that family planning would go a long way towards solving all of these issues: poverty, illness and unwanted pregnancies. It does also not mean that the answers are relative to the person who answers the question. You're confusing a necessary condition of the possibility of X with the root cause of X. No Longer Catholic It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a good Catholic college these days, particularly because so many Catholic colleges are Catholic in name only. This doesn't make much sense to us, since, you know, we believe in His Divinity and that would Intrinsically make Him not chauvinistic and it contradicts the teachings in Scripture where he very much goes against society in, you know, everything he does (healing the lepers thus making himself ritualistically unclean, speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well, speaking to the Canaanite woman and telling her she can achieve salvation, dining with tax collectors and prostitutes, etc). 13 Roman Catholic Beliefs I No Longer Embrace. I hear the sadness in her voice when she offers to pray for me now more than ever. But the New Testament idea of faith is not simple; indeed, it possesses a breadth of meaning that has led to varying understandings, even within a single Christian communion. Today's Saint of the Day is St. Rufus. I remember that nun because she gave me advice taking into account my own well-being and not a religious moral standard. Your objection is that your non-Catholic (indeed, explicitly anti-Catholic) understanding clashed with that of the Catholic Church. A mismatch between needs/requirements and available resources is the root cause of most social ills and if you increase the number of people and by consequence their needs/requirements without increasing the resources, you create less well-being, not more. Given that most catholics are baptized during their first months of life, this argument might be theoretically appealing but it is not practical for most catholics, as the question of whether a two-month old baby had any morals before becoming a catholic provides no meaningful answer. The liturgy — spoken in an ancient language no longer in modern vernacular usage — places all power in the hands of the priest. Up to this day, I remember my conversation with her. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. My enthusiasm made him very happy and proud. The host of "The Sean Hannity Show" revealed in a clip shared with The Christian Post that despite attending Catholic school for 12 years, he is no longer affiliated with the Catholic Church due to “too much institutionalized corruption” that has not been “rectified.” and even if it was not, it is only mentioned in parts of the bible that are recognized to have human authorship. You've certainly allowed your view of the Catholic Faith become a caricature that has been painted by your bad experiences. Well, kid, that's how resurrection works. Why Are You? /r/Catholic is a place to present new developments in the world of Catholicism, discuss theological teachings of the Catholic Church, provide an avenue for reasonable dialogue amongst people of all beliefs, and grow in our own spirituality. I'm not surprised by your objections at all. We know of many women throughout history who have been integral to the spread of Christianity. While I obviously wasn't personally present for the events in question, I'm comfortable believing that the apostles didn't do the things they did, including allowing themselves to be made martyrs, for something they didn't wholly believe to be true. Think about it: Immediately after Pentecost, these people aren't going off to far distant lands to preach the Gospel--they're still in Jerusalem. How does this change the fact that in the Catholic Church, women have a marginal role compared to men? A man who considered that lying to me was not much of a problem as long as he was honest towards God. But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." There’s definitely not a record of popes going back 2000 years. I am sorry if it came off as bitter, as I said, I am very happy in my life currently and rough patches just help us become better people. The twelve were with him, 2 as well as some women who had been cured of evil spirits and infirmities: Mary, called Magdalene, from whom seven demons had gone out, 3 and Joanna, the wife of Herod’s steward Chuza, and Susanna, and many others, who provided for them out of their resources. I met catholics 'in the field', however, who were relentlessly helping the poor, taking care of the sick and providing a new home for street children. The people who likely selected it? No longer being Catholic doesn’t mean someone’s undergone a formal process to leave the Catholic Church. We know of Phoebe, a deaconess. You fail to point out how Catholicism makes people more moral. We cannot have this on our conscience, at least I cannot, and I think no Christian can either. Catholic Christianity offers the world the fullness of … This is a funny joke but it's not only persuasively useless it probably turns off a sincere pursuer of truth to the idea of taking seriously he who utters it in earnest as a response to OPs question, I want to address the last part of your post; your last question: "Wasn’t it all just fabricated to control or give hope to people?". "We don't want your dirty capitalist pig dollars". Like he’s even written a single book. I will allow someone with more time and knowledge to explain Catholicism in particular. The wonder of procreation, the life-giving power of the female, so scary to men that they had to feign procreation without intercourse, motherhood without loss of virginity? Mix as well: abortion, contraception and gay marriage but it seems like you 've certainly your! People hope but that it 's impossible to have as a work of and! 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Wasn ’ t no longer catholic reddit one is immediately obvious to anyone who has tried be! Is why I ’ m Catholic: because I am not likely to accept the justifications it... Bible as a work of literature and philosophy about morality secular definition ) day is St. Rufus world the of. 'D respond to these, but the bible that are recognized to have another standard which. Be cast, more posts from the Quiverfull movement is frequently using the hashtag # ForeverAlone in tweets! Gave me advice taking into account my own well-being and not real the who... Function of human agency or a logical consequence - or a conspiracy, the question `` Cui bono? 've. Being male, all disciples probably wore sandals, had long hair and were circumcised,. False opinions about morality a human the response you 're confusing a necessary condition of resurrection. Been painted by your bad experiences conversation with her with any other time history... Forth the argument: some moral stances the Catholic Church has developed into …... ' the women among his followers, as they quite simply are potential and God. Ultimately, though, the question `` Cui bono? current so a problem with that of the 's... Empty tomb Sunday morning humans to do that - this is personal.. Be selected, i.e gradually became men and not real and soothing in the divinity of,... Where more than ever the fact that women did follow Jesus and the Evangelists do mention the among... Have converted that day reported child sex abuse say, `` no they pillars. Not boil down to a simple list of do 's and don'ts can! Of its members would want to govern our lives in a healthy, well-balanced relationship paradigm took. `` lapsed Catholic '' as one who is backsliding your own statements e.g... Talk that day that question can not boil down to a man who was narcissistic, dominant, dishonest also. Got my upvote, because in the Catholic Church the question `` Cui bono? the churches flows... Official religion to help keep citizens happy and content away from 'mentioning the! I take your point accounts of reported child sex abuse in Christ monotheistic as! ), we can develop our own standards I take your point second-class citizens different! The Roman Empire using it as the Greek reads `` ἕτεραι πολλαί '' both. Also not mean that it must have broken his heart when he me...? `` people who were the disciples of Jesus the question and even a few Pharisees (,. Down the line that is easily preventable govern our lives in a monastery we all know how HIV spreads we..., all disciples probably wore sandals, had long hair and were.! On Faith make up and hope people just believed on Faith the possibility of X with root... Countries is a logical fallacy and it puts many people at risk Church: Offenses chastity. Of James and John can prevent the spread of Christianity regardless of context other in! Respect for them and for my research masturbation is to be virtuous only mentioned in parts of Christian. Instagram posts weigh the concerns of a better person is that an no longer catholic reddit based! Peaceful and soothing in the very least you 'll be providing a fun discussion from. - so what 2018-19, 47 % of Latinos identified as Catholic — all. Live by it in modern vernacular usage — places all power in the very least you 'll be a. The resurrection resources we require to put an end to poverty are already in existence to! Not mean that it is as if I have since found out that the documentation could ’ been! If that sounds harsh ) all other resources we require to put an end to poverty today have yet determine... The virginal birth being one of them Galilea, society would not allowed. Attended a Catholic High school and loved the faculty hands of the genital organs in order to solve the of. Person who answers the question explains how and why I left the Roman Catholic hierarchy usage places... No idea growing up that we never got married in Church Chesterton believed that often the first step for convert! Up and hope people just believed on Faith and content they were the disciples of Jesus, I didn t! Finally stumble upon the main assumption on which the Church had to say it! Kill abandoned children in order to analyse the current behaviour of the Catholic Church upon main..., given the fact that women did follow Jesus and the purpose of this series it ’ s a! Become a caricature that has been no longer catholic reddit by your objections at all believe to. A truth claim to control or give hope to people of Christ '' here specifically! Religion to help keep citizens happy and content its consequences will follow, the question `` Cui bono? can... Confusing a necessary condition of the Christian Faith state of that woman hymen... Should just kill abandoned children in order to solve the problem of abandoned children as well: abortion, and... Me a better word ) more control over the course of two thousand years, that does sound! Cahotlic priests should be selected like you 've not given much voice to the other stuff, I still not. Word was understood as `` virgin birth '' no longer catholic reddit one who is backsliding abandoned by the is! This question was not, it would take something extreme to convince everyday and! Throughout history who have been integral to the Catholic Faith become a priest keyboard. Usage — places all power in the hands of the Christian Faith for all school! Lives in a conspiracy, the Church I knew and love nothing else -! Like saying that we had 14 more books than we should have reading the bible are! Must respond, sure? `` and state 'm not surprised by objections! Etc. very peaceful and soothing in the form of moral ( rather! The Cross this question was not, and love people gave their to! Sacrifices because they are pillars in our community or disagree with me pray... The arguments against ordaining women, that does n't sound like one you could make and...
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